tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post6582902447331586249..comments2023-05-17T13:22:26.321+02:00Comments on Melina's two cents: Sentadas, Montadas and Ganchos for BeginnersMelina Sedohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08727388535288424558noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-89750569985042922702011-10-18T02:20:04.289+02:002011-10-18T02:20:04.289+02:00@Damian "There are few advanced dancers in an...@Damian "There are few advanced dancers in any tango scene." I respectfully disagree because there are many at my local scene.<br /><br />Greetings from Buenos Aires. xxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-83019564553442166112011-10-16T21:18:27.804+02:002011-10-16T21:18:27.804+02:00Melina... I think the rule between teachers is esp...Melina... I think the rule between teachers is especially meaningful in the same market. I do not feel that you are trying to steal students/customers away from these teachers.<br /><br />Tango has come so far that at some point we need a consumer advocate, and you have stepped up as that in this blog. Buyer beware! <br /><br />So let me add to your remarks to the tangueros/tangueras who might buy this product: <br /><br />Product claim: "You will look awesome on the dance floor and all your non-dancing friends will be amazed at your abilities. <br /><br />Side effects: "You will waste your money, horrify good dancers, endanger others and lose friends at a milonga." <br /><br />One must weigh the benefits against the side effects.Tango Therapisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12548118004604256736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-84441681720773867142011-10-14T09:27:11.774+02:002011-10-14T09:27:11.774+02:00Wow - great to see so many comments!
Heya Melina ...Wow - great to see so many comments!<br /><br />Heya Melina - Great to read one of your posts too. Now, on the topic of their topics....<br /><br />Well, I agree with you - Rediculous. Especially if pitched at beginners. IMHO, there are few advanced dancers in any scene. Those that are advanced, usually are performing, either socially or professionally. <br /><br />As for the topics, these teachers and their ability as teachers. Horrible. I've attended some of their classes only to leave in complete disgust at both of their attitudes, and their teaching ability. These 2 have done nothing but offend almost every community that they have taught in.<br /><br />Personally having watched them turn up late, kiss in a corner for 10 mins, then talk for 25 insulting everyone in their 'masters' class, short demonstation, tell us to do it - kiss for another 10 mins and not fault correct, assist, or even look at the students. Return to the centre and tell everyone that they are doing it wrong.... Well, they lost me immediately, and then they continued to insult us all by continuing their rude actions.<br /><br />What a shame for Geraldine whose name was heralded so highly to be dragged to the depths of Paludi who should not be allowed to interact with anyone with the attitude that he brings to the table. <br /><br />This is all based on my personal observation of him, warnings from others before and since.<br /><br />AVOID this couple at all costs IMHO. No matter what you thought of them before.... <br /><br />So, this couple don't even care about the people, why would they care what they teach to them? They don't! Often they teach something so difficult just to show that they can do it and that you can't. Arrogance personified. <br /><br />So glad that Arce hit him for being an arrogant wanka on the dance floor - many more should do that to him.Damian Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17797254147904112300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-42799770000087476802011-10-11T07:52:49.191+02:002011-10-11T07:52:49.191+02:00Sure, Tina! Italy does have some real nice close-e...Sure, Tina! Italy does have some real nice close-embrace dancing. But it has also the other extreme! On Sunday, I was at a Milonga in Pisa and saw all those crazy steps, that we've been talking about in this blog. It was a desaster! :-(<br />As for Abrazame in Barcelona: Unfortunately, I will have to work that weekend. The Encuentro was announced only recently (4 month ago) which is much too short for my planning. I am planning more than a year ahead. MAYBE I can go there next year, if I manage to shift a date, that was planned for that weekend in December 2012. Speaking of the spontaneous, exciting life of Tango teachers... ;-))Melina Sedohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727388535288424558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-6862637822652874972011-10-06T15:03:25.288+02:002011-10-06T15:03:25.288+02:00Italy sure does have some lovely close-embrace tan...Italy sure does have some lovely close-embrace tango communities with a good level of dancing. One just has to stay away from big "showy" festivals and know where to go.<br /><br />Melina and Francesca, I won't be able to go to the Raduno Milonguero in Impruneta this October :-(( I'm sure both of you will be there and it would have been nice to see you. But I will pop over to the one in Barcelona in December the week before going to DJ at the encuentro milonguero in Bari :-) Hopefully I'll run into one or both of you at one of those!<br /><br />Happy abrazos everybody!<br />Tina FerrariTinahttp://tinatangos.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-56952907510573379972011-09-29T18:12:15.980+02:002011-09-29T18:12:15.980+02:00@Francis, you are right of course. I only danced i...@Francis, you are right of course. I only danced in Rome, and I know our friend Tina has a great close embrace community in the south. <br />I certainly enjoyed the Italian sense of music, in all styles.<br />EElizabeth Brintonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13814965814308408209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-75281296082407481742011-09-28T17:25:28.446+02:002011-09-28T17:25:28.446+02:00@ ghost and Elizabeth:
Italy is a big country, wit...@ ghost and Elizabeth:<br />Italy is a big country, with many many tango communities. There are some good and some very good tango communities, some not so good. You really cannot generalize.Francesca Bertellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14984093642401097564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-47007115456154496112011-09-27T23:53:44.532+02:002011-09-27T23:53:44.532+02:00Given that there are so many Italian dancers with ...Given that there are so many Italian dancers with an instinctive feel for the music and movement of tango, one wonders who, if anyone, is likely to go to workshops like this! Maybe (hopefully) it will be an expensive failure. <br /><br />But I doubt it: enough people are impressed by the displays this couple give to keep them in business. But accounts of their classes are less than inspiring, so perhaps we are not doomed; perhaps the consensus that what they teach is suitable only for displays, and not for social dancing, and that what they dance isn't feasible for most people, will continue.<br /><br />Stage tango gets taught under many guises, and people are mislead, so there's good reason to draw attention to the problems.Tangocommuterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14060601718946750364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-60844306864619647042011-09-27T22:07:14.321+02:002011-09-27T22:07:14.321+02:00P.S @Ghost: I think Italians in general are quite...P.S @Ghost: I think Italians in general are quite musical, but still a hazard on the milonga floor.<br />EElizabeth Brintonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13814965814308408209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-80283427095113749802011-09-27T22:04:56.261+02:002011-09-27T22:04:56.261+02:00I think the reason these classes are marketed towa...I think the reason these classes are marketed towards beginners, is that beginners don't know what they need to learn. <br />Did you ever watch at milongas, the way that beginners are admiring and watching the worst crazy dancers? They do it because it looks "fancy" or cool. They watch it because they need something to see. So much of beautiful tango is hard for the beginner, or observer to see. <br />But the worst part of these classes is that they ruin people for good tango, or people feel discouraged because they are not athletes, and never hang around long enough to start really learning the lovely basics. In the long run it is bad for business, bad for tango. <br />Thanks Melina,<br />EElizabeth Brintonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13814965814308408209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-71194830653273830332011-09-27T18:41:22.037+02:002011-09-27T18:41:22.037+02:00@Francesca
Thanks :)
It's weird, people keep...@Francesca<br /><br />Thanks :)<br /><br />It's weird, people keep telling me what wonderful dancers the Italians are, especially their musicality.Ghostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-61061217961233652702011-09-27T18:33:53.666+02:002011-09-27T18:33:53.666+02:00@ TTA:
I'm not brave!@ TTA:<br /><br />I'm not brave!Melina Sedohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727388535288424558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-6463307335316128462011-09-27T18:32:15.821+02:002011-09-27T18:32:15.821+02:00@LimerickTango:
I agree: the organiser bears the ...@LimerickTango:<br /><br />I agree: the organiser bears the same responsibility.<br /><br />But let me tell you how I handle such a case professionally:<br />I send out my list of workshops. Please keep in mind, that my list will contain only contents that apply to the social dance, so there is even no chance, that an organiser chooses something that absurd as a Sentada.<br />The organiser will then make a choice and I'll comment on it. We start exchanging mails until we've worked out a sensible solution.<br />In this process I will keep in mind the following questions:<br />- what are the levels<br />- to whom do the classes address<br />- have the dancers already been exposed to our concepts<br />- if so: what have we taught them on earlier occasions<br /><br />Most of the time, I will discourage organisers to choose complex contents. (When we are not VERY sure about the high level of the class, I will e.g. not offer a class of "Elegant turns with entradas".) And I will ALWAYS discuss the specific ORDER of classes so that they build onto each other. Very often, I will even tailor a special package for this specific location and put together "new" contents.<br /><br />We work almost every weekend of the year in another city in Europe, so you can imagine, that this costs me some time. But it is worth it. The sensitive and conscious choice of classes ensures the quality and success of a teaching-event.<br /><br />If I can do that - and I'm not particularly smart - why can't others as well?<br /><br />And this is, why I get so revved up about such an irresponsible behavior. Sorry.Melina Sedohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727388535288424558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-4122114236886308532011-09-27T13:35:05.073+02:002011-09-27T13:35:05.073+02:00You'll get no argument here, Melina. And thank...You'll get no argument here, Melina. And thanks for your bravery in choosing a specific, real-life example.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-5650600762269425582011-09-27T13:14:11.265+02:002011-09-27T13:14:11.265+02:00Just possibly this is a case of two parties not st...Just possibly this is a case of two parties not stepping up to the mark. The travelling teachers have simply sent the organiser the current list of classes that they've been teaching night after night without making enquiries as to their intended target. The organiser, possibly out of awe, has failed to respond that such classes may not be suitable. And the ones caught in the middle of this are the dancers, especially the beginners.<br /><br />Both organisers and teachers have to be responsible.LimerickTangohttp://www.limericktango.com/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-10984829931546424762011-09-27T10:28:30.829+02:002011-09-27T10:28:30.829+02:00I agree with this comment from Tangocherie:
"...I agree with this comment from Tangocherie:<br />"if students keep paying to learn this stuff, teachers will keep on teaching it. Lamentablemente."<br /><br />Supply will always satisfy demand. Unfortunately...<br />EvaldasAlterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822125772015535703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-12503676518975340332011-09-27T09:48:10.528+02:002011-09-27T09:48:10.528+02:00@ TTA:
Sure, why not teach jumps and Sentadas to a...@ TTA:<br />Sure, why not teach jumps and Sentadas to aspiring stage dancers. Nothing to say against this. I've done my share of jumping in earlier years as well -though not in Tango. ;-)<br />But I've SEEN people dance jumps and Sentadas in Milongas in France, Germany and also Italy. It was always done badly and was utterly embarrassing and I asked myself what kind of teacher would have taught those movements to them. Now I know. This is so sad!<br /><br />@ Cassiel:<br />Yes, we are all very polite. But you don't know, what words come into my head when I think of writing an article. I always have to tune down! ;-)Melina Sedohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727388535288424558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-72745959793449389032011-09-27T01:30:31.608+02:002011-09-27T01:30:31.608+02:00I've taken classes on jumps. In the right cont...I've taken classes on jumps. In the right context they are very enjoyable and interesting. In the seminar I took, almost all the students were very advanced or professional-level dancers interested in exploring the possibilities of stage tango or already dancing stage tango and wanting to improve their technique. And, besides, jumping is fun (though I'm not very good at it). And I've danced a jump into sentada (as part of a choreographed performance). Those things require technique and those techniques have to be learnt. (Incidentally, I am nearly as the same age as Melina).<br /><br />However, I've never even felt the desire to do any of those things at a milonga and I would be extremely surprised and taken aback by anyone who led them in that situation. (And probably a little terrified).<br /> <br />And I've also taken a number of classes and workshops for advanced-level/professional dancers which focused exclusively on fundamentals. And we spent hours just working on walking and perhaps a few very simple ochos. Those are the classes I seek out. The more I dance tango, the more I want to hone simple things like my walk or tiny details like changing weight on the spot.<br /><br />At the risk of stating the obvious, the basics in tango are endlessly challenging, no matter what your level. And it is always rewarding to work on them. If you can dance the basics well, almost everything else (except jumps!) will be easy. And, if you can't, nothing else will work. And, even for the best dancers, there is always room for refinement and improvement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-53398849210649764912011-09-27T01:00:29.054+02:002011-09-27T01:00:29.054+02:00All in all i think you've been very polite...All in all i think you've been very polite...cassielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09358837599599618837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-61105198566736098042011-09-27T00:19:20.008+02:002011-09-27T00:19:20.008+02:00http://insearchoftango.blogspot.com/2010/08/world-...http://insearchoftango.blogspot.com/2010/08/world-exclusive-secret-milonguero-steps.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-10853217458275042652011-09-27T00:12:44.818+02:002011-09-27T00:12:44.818+02:00@ Kerstin:
Neulich haben wir in Finnland auf eine...@ Kerstin:<br /><br />Neulich haben wir in Finnland auf einem Festival 19 Stunden in 5 verschieden Niveaus unterrichtet. In EINEM der Niveaus haben wir an EINEM Tag ein paar Pivots gemacht. Ansonsten sind wir nur gegangen.<br />Aber ich verlange ja gar nicht, dass alle Lehrer so fanatisch sind! ;-)<br /><br />Hier unser Programm für den Rest von 2011 und demnächst die Vorschau auf 2012:<br />http://www.tangodesalon.de/de/programm.htmMelina Sedohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727388535288424558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-72444312539698689822011-09-26T23:16:21.982+02:002011-09-26T23:16:21.982+02:00Frohlockt hätte ich, wenn Maestro, (Einzelstunden ...Frohlockt hätte ich, wenn Maestro, (Einzelstunden a 110 €) mit mir GEGANGEN wäre! ;-) WANN und WO ? unterrichtet <br />Ihr demnächst??Kerstinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-34994654073413996262011-09-26T23:04:19.426+02:002011-09-26T23:04:19.426+02:00In Italy they use the french word "stage"...In Italy they use the french word "stage" to indicate a workshop. The video on the FB announcement of the classes refer to a workshop. No mention anywhere of "advanced" students, but only beginners and intermediates.Francesca Bertellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14984093642401097564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-34766538413327854292011-09-26T22:55:43.690+02:002011-09-26T22:55:43.690+02:00@Kerstin:
Das ist einer unserer Running Gags im U...@Kerstin:<br /><br />Das ist einer unserer Running Gags im Unterricht. Wenn wir wieder einen ganzen Tag nur gegangen sind, weisen wir gerne darauf hin, dass am nächsten Tag Sprünge auf dem Programm stehen.<br /><br />Komisch... die nehmen uns nie ernst, sondern lachen nur und kommen wieder! ;-)Melina Sedohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08727388535288424558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9183577605666117106.post-10614624609420422312011-09-26T22:49:31.988+02:002011-09-26T22:49:31.988+02:00Liebe Melina,
danke für Deine sympatische Antwort...Liebe Melina, <br />danke für Deine sympatische Antwort, und danke auch, dafür, dass Du Dich getraut hast eine "antikollegialen" Kritik zu diesem SELBSTDARSTELLERISCHEN Schrottunterricht, der für viel Geld, in HH zuletzt Workshops a 60 € pro person, angeboten wird! zu äussern.Tangounterricht braucht gelegentlich Kritik aus den eigenen Reihen..... aber, wie gesagt, wenn die Nachfrage das Angebot bestimmt, braucht das Angebot auch Menschen die mit den Füssen abstimmen, und nicht hingehen. Die menschliche Eitelkeit - "hab mal 5 takte mit P.V getanzt" - ist schon ein Faktor. Leider einer, der dem wunderschönen Tango nicht viel Gutes tut. <br />Ein Beispiel von mir, als junge Frau recht viel klass. Tanz gemacht, bei einem renomierten Maestro in B.A gelandet, tangomässig nicht weit über die Anfänge hinaus, sagte Maestro : <br />"und nächste Woche dann Sprünge!"<br />Mag sein, dass er sich gewundert hat, dass ich nicht mehr hingegangen bin. ;-)Kerstinnoreply@blogger.com